different sound when recording December 28 2001 at 4:38 PM
I have my PS-02 for a few months and so far I am quite impressed. I do not use my amp anymore, hooking up my Strat and using headphones is great. But I do not understand that as soon as I start recording the sound if different from the sound when not in recording mode, the sound sound actually worse, I tried changing the input more setting but this does not make a difference. Anyone an idea? Greetings from a windy, and cold Holland!
I think I may have spoke about this before but...some effects on the PS-02 are stereo effects eg. Wide,Air,Ping Pong delay. When recording with these effects you must record in stereo(ie record to tracks 2 + 3 with one panned fully left and one panned fully right). Unfortunately this takes up two thirds of your tracks but you can record on track one and do a stereo bounce back to tracks 2 + 3. Hope this helps
daled
Untitled
January 5 2002, 11:25 PM
I think this may have more to do with the fact that the ps02 only records at a 31(or something like that)kz sampling frequency, which is less than 44.1 cd quality. This is taken from the Homerecording.com BB:
"The 31kHz rate follows the Nyquist sampling theorem. Accordingly, frequencies of only up to 15.5kHz can be sampled without aliasing. To prevent this aliasing, filters must be employed to prevent any frequencies above 15.5kHz from being sampled. This results in an actual bandwidth of well below 15.5kHz. "
This means that the ps02 cuts out any frequencies above 15khz, resulting in a recording that is audibly poorer.
dale
Nyquist and Recording..
January 11 2002, 4:15 PM
To daled,
I disagree with the assumption that 31kHz sample rate is the reason why the audio sounds poorer while recording. The reason why I say this is because a sample rate is a continuous stream of data, whether recording or not recording. That means that it is always recording & playing at a sample rate of 31kHz. (Easy way to test this theory out is to switch from HiFi to LoFi on the ps02. Notice how the sound quality changed, even though you weren't recording? That's because sample rate is always being applied.)
If Channan had said that the quality was poor the whole time, then your assumption that might be more correct.
You do lose about 6Hz off of the Highs, but have you heard a frequency at 16,000Hz? It is barely audible. They say that the average adult can hear up to 18,000Hz and child 20,000Hz. Yes, you do lose fidelity, but it's not nearly as bad as you might think. Actually, ps02 makes up for this by being 20-bit. Since each bit represents about 6 dB of dynamic range, which would be about 120dB of dynamic range as opposed to 96dB.
I have to agree with Dempsey, because you can't have a stereo effect on a mono recording. It won't work right.
See ya!
-_-Ken-_-
daled
Re: different sound when recording
January 11 2002, 5:19 PM
Ken,
youve definitely got the edge on me there. Im not exactly too knowledgable on all the 'finer' points of digital recording but I had found this explanation on a previous thread @ the homerecording.com bbs. Made sense to me at the time Thanks for the clarification.
dale
to daled
January 14 2002, 11:06 AM
Heh! It is a good thing that homerecording.com isn't completely right in their assumption that it has to do with the sample rate, for all ps02 users. I really do like the recording quality of the ps-02. I still prefer my home computer when it comes to the final session, but the ps02 can definately hold water. Still, it would have been nice to have a 44,100 feature though, don't ya think?
BRIT GRIT
44.0040068044001780020498400766
January 14 2002, 12:16 PM
I don't think it needs a higher recording rate or what ever. this little box is a fantastic little divice but its just a demo box in my mind, just a thing for ideas. your never gonna get a pro sounding recording for less than a couple of grand or know exactly what your doing (and if you know exactly what your doing you probably won't be mucking about with a little home recording box!)
sorry for the rant but people just seem to be getting above them selves and forgetting whats important, a good tune is a good tune whether on a tape recorder or in a studio..... get the music alive, people, and don't drown it in processing!
44,100
January 14 2002, 5:47 PM
I didn't say it needed a higher sample rate, I said it would be nice to have a higher sample rate. 2 different perspectives here. What does that have to do with getting ahead of myself and forgetting what's important? Whether I choose 44,100 or 33,050 I will still continue to make the best music I can make. Just because I like a good dynamic range as well as frequency response, that doesn't mean that now I'm going to make trashy music because I'm so concerned with sound production. The reason why 44,100 would be nice is because there would be no upwards dithering when throwing it on a computer to burn for a CD. It would be clean cut.
I don't mean to rant either, but I hate it when people assume that just because you wouldn't mind seeing a higher quality sample rate that you plan to toss out your homestudio and solo record your next album on the ps02.
daled
Re: different sound when recording
January 14 2002, 6:53 PM
I'm not complaining about the ps02 sampling rate because by my ears the recordings sound fine for what it was meant for but I do understand the dithering problem...
I love the ps02 and all its features but if I were ever to do anything half seriously I would use my CPU just for the freedom of editing takes and not having to continuously bounce tracks. I never seem to properly set volume levels when I bounce tracks so my recordings always end up badly mixed...
to Daled
January 15 2002, 3:43 PM
I agree with you, Daled. I would use my computer too. The ps02 is nice to carry around and catch ideas, even use sounds for sampling. but even if you recorded your next album on the ps02 you probably won't end up with a bad audio product.
Pit
Re: different sound when recording
January 15 2002, 5:37 PM
Ps02: easy 2 use, fun, good sound
Cubase: better sounding, hard 2 use, no fun
I love the ps02 and the audio sound is very good. After (trying) to use cubase for a long time ... now I have time to play the git. and dont need to fight with my PC.
brit grit
unrelated
January 16 2002, 5:15 AM
what i mean is (i know i wouldn't be popular for slagging of techy stuff!) this is a forum for PS02 stuff but every time i check in it seems to be full of PC stuff...don't get me wrong, ive got a PC and i save my work to it but all this talk about recording rates and processing speed is irelevent to the intended subject. this little box of tricks does what it does and that can't be changed. All respect to armin and the like for cracking the codes and so forth so you don't need to have access to a rt323 but why winge about some thing that cant be changed......
ps. i know im being hypocritical by using this space for non-ps02 stuff but hey, whatever...
daled
Re: different sound when recording
January 16 2002, 6:44 PM
brit grit,
this forum is dedicated to the ps02 and ways to better use it. it just so happens that a cpu expands the ability of the machine and why not try to make it better? I agree that this machine is cool but Armin's advances make it so much better. why be content with what you've got if you have the opportunity to make it better?
I also dont see why a little technical discussion is off topic for this forum? stuff like sampling rates are important aspects of recording so why make such a big deal about it?
dale
Whoah!
January 16 2002, 10:28 PM
Britgrit: Hey I understand what you're saying, but whoah! I have to disagree again. Subjects of sampling rates and bit rates have everything to do with the ps02. Being that it is a digital audio recorder, and it relies on the same tried and true ad/da(analog/digital conversions) processing that every digital audio device uses (computer sound cards, digital effects processors, etc. etc.) these subjects hold water. You see if we understand the limitations of our equipment then we will know how to use our equipment up to it's maximum capacity. If you don't understand the limitations, then you are just fishing around. Me, personally, I want to know every single little detail about everything I get so I know that I'm not shorthanding myself.
Actually the ps02 has little to do with creating music. It has alot to do with recording and effects. You are the person who makes the music, the ps02 is there to record it and make it sound better or different. There's no button to help you when you're stuck on a song. It's just there to jot down ideas that you thought of, among other things of course. The main purpose of the ps02 is not creating music, it's recording music and ideas. With that said, it would be more ligitmate to talk about recording and sample rates than it would about anything else because that is the intended purpose of the machine. It is nice to understand how much ms a delay requires before it bounces back on the next beat of a 110 bpm music track. It's nice to understand that 20-bits have more dynamic range than a CD-player, because when you're ready to burn to a CD, you'll want to take advantage of those extra bits. It's important to know that you need to record in stereo to use certain effects or it will mess your sound up.
I agree that this message post has nothing to do with musicianship. But... this is the other side of the spectrum. Audio engineering. It is almost as important as musicianship, because engineering a song well can make the difference between a good song that sounds good and a good song that sounds bad.
Anyways, that's all I really have to say. I know where you're coming from. People should be able to just be happy with what they got. I couldn't agree more. The question is.. how do you really know what you've got until you understand everything there is to understand?
brit grit
Re: different sound when recording
January 17 2002, 6:59 AM
whatever.... i give up.... talk about bits and rates till your hearts content.... the PS-03 will be around soon and then you can repeat the complaints about that.....
Re: different sound when recording
January 17 2002, 1:32 PM
Hi guys,
you all have got soundcards with external AD/DA convertors that you are so sure that PS-02 sound is just good for a demo...It is very important thing. Inside the computer there is a lot of magnetic disturbing, but it is not in Ps-02. 20 bit AD/DA convertors are good enough as Ken said...
who's complaining?
January 18 2002, 3:09 PM
Who's complaining? The only whining in this whole message post is you. There are people out here who like to take advantage of the full potential of our equipment. We learn every aspect of the ps-02 and even try to make it better. If you choose not to and feel defensive because other people are; you can either start learning how to use it to it's full potential, or stay ignorant.
It's funny because all I see on these posts is your incessant whining about how we're complaining about the ps-02 and I haven't seen a complaint yet.... except for your own. This message post originally started out with a guy who needed help about recording in stereo.
When the ps-03 comes out, maybe there will be complaints. Or maybe it will just be you whining for us to stop complaining when we're not.
brit grit
Re: different sound when recording
January 21 2002, 4:53 AM
like i said....what ever... didn't think it would be so easy to get your backs up....
Dempsey
Maybe you should agree to disagree...
January 22 2002, 2:52 AM
I like this forum because it has been about the PS-02 and not the personalities in it. Lets keep it that way!
I'm sure the person who originally posted this question is satisfied and busily recording away...
Re: Maybe you should agree to disagree...
January 23 2002, 1:36 PM
I did not anticipate that my question would ruffle so many feathers. Plan and simple I just wondered that in recording mode the sound is not in stereo, but once recorded it is in stereo. It is just a bit harder to record while the sound is of inferior quality. Let's close the subject and make some music.
Greetings again from a drizzly and cold Holland!
haha
January 23 2002, 4:54 PM
You knew what you were doing! You were trying to rile us all up so it would become a verbal bloodbath in here!! ..errr.ahhh...or maybe not.
dan h
Post processing PS02 takes
January 24 2002, 7:09 AM
I find PS02 just dandy for capturing takes in the studio - either DI'd or with careful mic placement.
Having done this, we transfer to PC, and resample at 48k in SoundForge, (or you could use the free trial version of Goldwave) and add a bit of top before mixdown in ACID (ACIDXpress is free)
Sure, 31k is 31k, but you can always puff it up a bit if you have the software.
At the end of the day this is a £200 toy and as such, would be perfect if the greedy shysters at Zoom hadn't deliberately left out editing tools to force us to buy 323's. Respect to Armin for putting it right.
Thanks for the clarification.